I have been a lurker here on lemmy for a while and I have hesitantly made an account because I wanted to create a post on politics.
I want to preface this by saying, I lived a childhood being indoctrinated on politics. I was constantly being told that free markets are the pinnacle of human intellect and that free markets (in literally an absolutist way on every aspect of life) is the only way that leads to progress. It honestly took me a while to challenge these beliefs with I attribute to Shaun and Hbomberguy on youtube, and eventually embrace leftist ideas in my personality.
When the recent drama regarding the Uighur muslims occured recently I was a bit let down. I have looked around and saw posts that I understand to be supportive of the CCP in China and other communist states.
So here is my question. Why? Even if we forget about the Uighur, what about the Tianamen square massacre? Is that also false information? China’s tightening grip on hong kong despite being met with resistance from people of Hong Kong, is that also false information? The repercussions of Mao’s leadership? The complete absence of gay and trans rights in modern day China? China being a police state? Is that all false propaganda?
If your answer might be that western states have also failed to protect the interests of common people, I agree. I think western states do see a resurgence of far right movements exactly for this reason. But this is not a comparison of who is the worst.
Why exactly do people here (at least that is what I perceive) turn a blind eye to the brutalities of an authoritarian government such as the CCP?
As an aside, I’m an anarchist. I don’t think any state is infallible, and anyone that claims a state to be infallible has some greater ideological issues to work through. But once you sift through the dreck of exaggerated news article and info manipulation, the CCP seems significantly less (emphasis on the less) terrible than western countries that people treat as infallible bastions of freedom and fairness. China may openly censor their press, but they don’t fund plantation slavery in Africa, they don’t send Pinochet in to assassinate your president, they have actual functioning poverty alleviation programs based on heavily taxing the rich, and they have an actual functioning process in place to combat global warming (the green new deal hasn’t even been drafted yet in the US).
If leftists don’t at least do a lukewarm defense of Marxist countries then liberals will see it as a failed project. Instead it is a political experiment that’s still in progress and actively gets less violent and more stable over time.
I read your entire response, and my brief follow up is this. I don’t like or defend the US involvement in any country they have intentionally destabilized.
On the other hand, I cannot accept an answer such as, “you have only read the western propaganda”. You are asking me to deny any credibility of sources coming from western nations, either state media or independent. Even if there exist inaccuracies, I am not willing to just change my perspective just because of “western propaganda”. It really is too much to ask for.
And to add to add further to this, I remember another comment of yours saying you are trans (just to be clear I love and support trans people). Are you not concerned at all for the absence of gay or trans rights in china?
Can you explain to me how LGBT rights do not exist in mainland? Last I heard, LGBT rights were legally approved long ago, and the only controversy in recent times happened with a local court which was nullified by the higher authorities.
As for Tiananmen Square, let me shatter the propaganda you have seen with a picture that started the so-called massacre, and a tankman video clip from CNN Crew.
pictures of what Western media and Reuters did not show you
Tankman crushed? CNN footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU
I am not sure as to how respond to this one. I think it is a cheap effort to link the footage of tanks coming to a halt in front of the protester, as an example of “see, no harm done, therefore debunked”. Like, could the massacre not happen later on during that day?
And for any possible accusation towards the ccp, there always comes some source claiming the accusation is false. As of now, I have been told that the Uighur cultural cleansing is not true, the tianamen square massacre is not true, and that Lgbt rights are recognized in china. Wikipedia points to the opposite for each one of these questions.
Is wikipedia inaccurate? Maybe. But china is known for filtering the entire influx of internet to prohibit specific content from being viewed. North korea has a linux distribution that is configured to only connect to local intranet. Why exactly would I trust a secretive state more than wikipedia or reuters?
I am sure Lukashenko can cite many sources as to why he is the best president ever, but what worth are they when he owns them? Freedom of press is important for this reason.
I fear that you might think of my response as an insult. Honestly I don’t wish to “own” anyone with “gatcha” moments.
Cheap effort for what? Western media posting and reposting one still of the supposedly about to be crushed Tankman for 3 decades now? That never happened, you see.
As for Wikipedia and Wikimedia, you can see here a recent incident regarding their biases against mainland China. https://hongkongfp.com/2021/09/14/exclusive-wikipedia-bans-7-mainland-chinese-power-users-over-infiltration-and-exploitation-in-unprecedented-clampdown/
As for mainland China’s GFW, censorship extrapolated to censorship of narratives and isolation of the censorship action itself is the grift Western media plays. Nobody wants to talk about what led to Facebook being banned by CPC. Nobody wants to discuss what led to Twitter clampdown. Nobody wants to discuss Tankman video footage, when a photo still is all that is needed to be a grifter and throw stones at a country and its people you might never even visit.
Wikipedia has many instances of being more than just inaccurate. You have to look past the article information, and go to talk section on any of the “controversial” topic pages and see editing wars.
China, DPRK and so on never were colonialist powers that colonised foreign lands like the Anglo powers (see 8 Nation Alliance, nowadays 5/9/14 Eyes) did to the world in the past 5 or so centuries, essentially post Renaissance. Pre WW2, Britain held the baton, post WW2 they passed on the baton to USA.
Today, if you try and look how USA reinvented the disinformation media apparatus using USAGM, CFR, Bilderberg media and the Murdoch network, you will notice a pattern so vile and vicious, you will stop finding faults and self critiquing your supposedly “free” position on topics you reached of your own “free will”.
You are a victim of the Anglo imperialists’ generic psyops campaign, like most people, and that is normal to you. And you will find it hard to venture out of the normal comfort zone, so you keep denying information one side presents and only accept information from the other side. A victim of partisan politics, if you will, as I often say.
Edit: I just noticed you mentioned Lukashenko, aka Belarus. Let me present to you why the IMF mafia and EU news media was creating a nonsense narrative about Belarus’ supposed dictatorship.
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2020-0280_EN.html
Refer to Point AR 1 (ca):
Basically EU wants Belarus to stay dependent on IMF loans, and reduce their independence with self owned enterprises and so on.
This same card was played in the “liberation” of Libya by NATO bombing last decade because Gaddafi wanted to install an African Monetary Fund (AMF), a communications satellite for Africa for $400M (for which they used to pay EU $500M annually) and a Central Bank of Africa to become independent from US and EU slavery.
Ok this is a difficult discussion but I will try.
I actually was aware that the war for the “liberation” of Libya was in reality serving US interests, just like the war on Afghanistan. I am also aware how freedom of press CAN also have huge downsides, with the Murdoch family owning Fox and Sky news, which spew heinous propaganda everywhere they go. As for instances of colonialism by european counties and the US, it is something I fully condemn. And even if Belarus is under threat by ploys from big banks (which I knew nothing about till now), Lukashenko is still a deplorable human being.
But why should we twist reality and not acknowledge the wrongdoings of the CPC as well? You are so ready to bring me these sources (with majority of which I agree), why is so difficult to agree on the crimes of the CPC?
Lukashenko is less deplorable than any American warmongering president, so that makes him… more human? He is also someone opposing neo Nazi forces, so that makes him… less deplorable? Belarus is a victim of EU and IMF mafia, that is all.
CPC’s “crimes” happen to be twisted in the first place. This is why Tiananmen Square is created into some kind of a massacre done by CPC, when that is absolutely and completely untrue, as noted at few sources besides the Tankman footage and the little collage I shared:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm
https://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/
https://web.archive.org/web/20200422091229/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1135444450103177216.html
Ever tried to wonder why China has been historically bashed by Anglo imperialists? Refer to Cold War playbook used on Russia, and it might help you.